7 Apr 2007

What If We Were Really Dead to Sin?

Submitted by theshovel
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I mean, what if being “dead to sin” was more than just a Biblical phrase? More than a “Christian” concept? More than a doctrine to be discussed or argued? More than a position to be held to? What if it was not a difficulty needing to be explained away? What if it was a reality?

Well, if it is true …

  • we may be spending an awful lot of time worrying about that which is dead.
  • we may be spending an awful lot of time reasoning with the logic of the dead.
  • we may be spending an awful lot of time chasing that which is dead.
  • we may be spending an awful lot of time arguing about that which is dead.
  • and we definitely may be spending too much time listening to people preach and teach about that which is dead!

For despite all our objections, if in Christ we were really dead to sin …

  • the belief that we still lived in sin would be a lie.
  • the belief that we were still slaves of sin would be a lie.
  • the belief that we have two natures would be a lie.
  • the belief that we were not freed from sin would be a lie.
  • the belief that we were not walking in newness of life would be a lie.

And if in Christ we were really dead to sin …

  • we could not make it sound reasonable to the fleshly mind.
  • we could not reason it according to psychological principles.
  • we could not keep it from sounding heretical to religious reasoning or teaching.
  • we could not harmonize it with any fleshly or religious viewpoint.

If it is true that we were really dead to sin …

  • perhaps we should question a “Christianity” that can exist without it.
  • perhaps we should question how “Christian living” could be taught without it.
  • perhaps we should question a freedom that can exist without it.
  • perhaps we might stop trying to evade the answer by stopping at Paul’s rhetorical question about continuing in sin that grace might increase.

If we were really and truly dead to sin through Christ’s own death …

  • we might need to reevaluate everything Jesus said in view of it.
  • we might need to reevaluate everything Paul wrote in view of it.
  • we might need to reevaluate every other new testament writing in view of it.
  • we might need to reevaluate ourselves in view of it.
  • we might need to reevaluate everything in view of it.

How do you view yourself? How do you view life? According to sin? If so, you are are viewing yourself according to what Christ made you dead to. If your life truly revolves around sin can it possibly revolve around Christ? Better yet, if your life truly revolves around Christ can it possibly revolve around sin?

Jim Minker, April 7, 2007

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin.Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Romans 6:1-11

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Comments

theshovel's picture

These comments were all transferred over from the original website

Posted: Apr-07-07 at 11:23am by Sin
"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin[Paul,do you mean "sinning"?] so that grace may increase? May it never be![oh,you must be saying "sinning" then if you are saying MAY IT never be!} How shall we who died to sin still live in it[are you saying "sinning"?}? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life[in otherw2ords,walk as "dead to sin"-not be efforts but by recognizing we are no longer alive to sin]. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin[body of sin?hmmm..no my body wasn't cricified..unless you are speaking figuratively] might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin.Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God[interesting choice of words,to die TO something]. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus." Romans 6:1-11[I think most would agree that we all spend most of our time trying to understand what dying "to" sin is!!Because of the wording it DOES seem that he is saying we are dead to sinning.To me though it wasnt meant this way oftgen leads people to thinking this is just a way of Paul trying to get us to stop sinning in our own strength.In reality all he is saying as far as I see it,is that our old nature is gone,and our new man is alive.That new man[opur spirit] is never going to have anything to do with sin ever again and is TOTALLY rietous!


Posted: Apr-07-07 at 12:36pm by Ed Adams
In Romans 7:14 it appears Paul is contradicting himself saying he is a bond slave to sin. No matter how we put it there are two forces battling for control. The only solution is to allow Jesus Christ to live His life in, through, and with me. And even though I acknowledge that I still find myself operating in the flesh more than I care to admit. So I agree with Paul that I do not understand myself, but thanks be to God through Jesus Christ that He has and is saving me from the law of sin and death.
any thoughts?
Ed


Posted: Apr-07-07 at 2:17pm by Jim-the shovel
Hello Ed!

Yes, as you said it APPEARS that Paul contradicts himself, but that's only because we read a bunch of verses rather than a continuing discourse. In truth, what Paul described in Romans 7 is the bogus place of his return to living under law. I say bogus because it is the delusion we see ourselves in (and therefore react accordingly) when we try to live by law. Consider how Paul's conclusion to the whole matter was in recognizing a simple distinction:

"Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."

This is the very same thing he referred to in Galatians 6:7&8:

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life."

It is so simple, so cut and dried. We cannot get anything out of the flesh, that is, the physical body of itself (along with the mind of that flesh), other than sin or corruption. The law is what relates and motivates the flesh. On the other hand, the life that we have been raised anew in can do nothing but reap eternal life, that is, to serve the law NOT of the flesh, but of God. And that is why Paul continued on to speak of the total victory of those in the Spirit.

Jim


Posted: Apr-07-07 at 8:10pm by Joanne
Good Morning Jim,

Powerful Message from you this morning.
Well, has anybody called you "Thinker-Minker" cause you certainly know how to write to get us thinking. [[[[smiles]]]]

What we have seen, heard and testify...IN Christ a New Creation race alive now unto God with grace and mercy in motion because of our free gift of Christ the righteousness and holiness of our Father. (Romans 5:17-21)

Romans 1:4 "and He declared the Son of God with Power by the Spirit of Holiness and by the resurrection from the grave." Knowing Him and the Power of the Resurrection that I have the same Spirit of Holiness dwelling in me, quickened and raised up IN Christ the Righteousness of God. HALLELUJAH to our King of Glory!! Exodus 29:43 "And there I will meet with the children of Israel, and [the tabernacle] shall be sanctified by My Glory." Sanctified means pure and holy. And where HE IS there is Holy too. We are now the tabernacle of God filled with Christ His Glory. Awakening the body to Righteousness and not sin. Oh, I get soooo excited sharing the word. Thanks for stiring me up and the body to remember WHO IS in US and that we cannot be complete in Him, single-eyed with ONE vision of Christ and still see sin.
...NJOY Now, Joanne


Posted: Apr-08-07 at 9:45pm by Dan

Awesome Jim I thank God He has truly open your heart and mind to see His awesome gospel message and thank Him for you spreading the message of love and grace.

Love in Christ Dan


Posted: Apr-13-07 at 1:19pm by Bea
Thank you for this most compelling article---- it is such a blessing----Bea


Posted: Feb-10-09 at 10:20am by Richard
I know I am so thick. If it's so cut and dried why are we (so called Christians, that is ) all suffering and dying and lying and falling and missing it? Obviously there is something in the way. You say it is a delusion for we are in fact dead to sin but my life testifies differently. We are not to believe anything of what we see or hear? then why believe the Gospel? Why be born in the first place? Why not just jump off a bridge since all appearances are worthless. Why fight to protect my family? Why, why, why???
You get where I'm coming from I'm sure, unfortunately i'm having trouble getting where you are coming from.
Please assist.

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