18 Feb 2013

What about Jesus?

Submitted by theshovel
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If Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, or James held a legalistic view of Christianity, then we have to ask the most obvious question: Where did they learn it from? Yeah, what about Jesus? Was he truly the one who brought the grace we so highly value, or did it only come from the writings of the one many regard as a false apostle? In this audio, we’re going to take a good look at what Jesus really taught.

ShovelAudio: What About Jesus?

(Audio Series: Men of Grace or Men of Law?)

ShovelAudio Download Link

Comments

“Considering the fact that his message caused outcasts to LOVE him, and religious folks to hate them, it should tell us that the religious mind has somehow adapted those words so they now appeal to the self-righteous, and repel the outcast.” LOVE this!.. and keepin on listening! Thank you brothers for teaching the truth! Love Mary
theshovel's picture

Hi Mary! Thanks for your encouragements, and I am so glad to know that our audios mean so much to you.

Jim

..and thank you Mary for writing us!

 

Adam

Can we speed up to next weeks shovelaudio?
theshovel's picture

So, does that mean we're speaking too slow for you? lol  Of course, if you were to sit in on my editing process, you would understand why that's funny to me. I do most of my editing somewhere between 1.5-1.8 times the normal speed ... and yes, it makes us sound like chipmunks! :) 

Now, I'm assuming that after I made a post about already having the next Shovel audio in queue that you're hoping I'll upload it right away. However, I still have to edit it, which takes between 2-3 hours. I have to pace my projects out or I wouldn't be able to get the other stuff done. I'll get it out soon, though. I am encouraged that you're wanting to get it ASAP. :)

Jim

I’ve often wondered if the Bible is not meant to be accurately interpreted unless God reveals to the reader who exactly is talking and that only happens when God supernaturally enables us to “see” or “hear” exactly who is doing the talking. For instance, in our modern day TV documentary or 90 second news report, the producer/journalist edits together a number of clips, one after another. There could be five video clips edited together with any mix of different people talking. If you took those five clips and transcribed them to text only on paper, you wouldn’t know who is talking unless, the transcriber inserted the speakers name, which a journalist/producer often does with a graphic at the bottom of the screen. But what happens if the same five people’s statements are transcribed to text only and their name and title graphic are purposely omitted, so the audience’s attention is focused on “what” is being said about “whom” and not “who” is doing the talking? After all, aren’t we in a war with the flesh, the world and the powers of darkness? It seems that God only told us what we needed to know about him and left much for the religious mind and the enemy to wonder about. When God wants to reveal a thing then he chooses who and when to reveal it too. Does this make any sense or am I off on some fleshly silly rabbit trail of my own? Also, when I am going through long term difficult times like now…no good paying job, no home of our own, barely able to pay the bills, etc…I begin to feel like it’s all my fault because I was a poor student…didn’t do my assignments and partied away my valuable learning time. I feel like the people with letters and degrees are so blessed. They have all the higher intelligence, jobs and higher value skills. But then I keep thinking…..Look at Joseph…What training or skills did he have. He had a gift from God to interpret dreams. BTW, whatever happened to that gift. Isn’t it really about what purpose God has for our lives? What knowledge and revelations he choses to give us before he even created the earth. It’s not a matter of how well we have studied or disciplined ourselves….How does that work. These are just questions Jim…no need to post them if they don’t relate to the audio.
theshovel's picture

Thanks for responding, my friend!

You wrote:

I've often wondered if the Bible is not meant to be accurately interpreted unless God reveals to the reader who exactly is talking and that only happens when God supernaturally enables us to "see" or "hear" exactly who is doing the talking.

At one time I would have agreed with this suggestion because of the overwhelming difficulties people have with understanding the Bible. However, those who heard Jesus speak these words first hand were fully aware of who he was speaking to and about. They understood the context better than we do, and yet that did not give them insight into the realities of which Jesus spoke. They were moved, they were intrigued, they were filled with longing, and yet none of that kind of understanding revealed the truth of Christ to them. In other words, the stuff we often think we can't understand without God's enabling is in fact the very understanding that prompted the scribes and Pharisees as they accused Jesus of being a spawn of the devil.

After all, aren't we in a war with the flesh, the world and the powers of darkness? It seems that God only told us what we needed to know about him and left much for the religious mind and the enemy to wonder about. When God wants to reveal a thing then he chooses who and when to reveal it too.

While we are indeed in a war with the flesh, the world, and the powers of darkness, we have not been left in darkness in any way, even though it often feels like we just barely get enough to really understand. But, my friend, we have been brought into union with God himself through Christ. Paul claimed that we have the mind of Christ. Peter wrote that we've been given all things pertaining to life and godliness. John stated that we do know the truth. I think we've been intimidated by the fleshly mind into believing that God only doles out truth for certain believers, and yet for ourselves, it seems that we only receive little bits and pieces here and there. You see, these tactics and manipulations of intimidation define the real war that's being waged against us by the powers of darkness. I'm not saying that God doesn't stir the hearts of some in such a way s to encourage and enlighten the true knowledge that's within all his children, for I'm sure he does.

Also, when I am going through long term difficult times like now...no good paying job, no home of our own, barely able to pay the bills, etc...I begin to feel like it's all my fault because I was a poor student...didn't do my assignments and partied away my valuable learning time. I feel like the people with letters and degrees are so blessed. They have all the higher intelligence, jobs and higher value skills.

I believe this is the crux of your questions and concerns about interpretation and revelation, for it is the real stuff that happens in our own lives that feeds our doubts and speculations, which boils down to the basic question: What did I do wrong? I don't question the proposition that our choices affect how our lives play out, but what I do question is the rationale by which we either praise or condemn ourselves for it. Fleshly logic demands that our smart (aka. good) choices bring us the blessings we assume will prove that they were of God, and that our stupid (aka. bad) choices cause us to lose those blessings. What if many of our seemingly smart/good choices have more to do with fleshly factors rather than something like God's leading? After all, how many people in the world don't even have the option to make the choices we imagine as being God's blessings? And how many people who are fortunate or determined enough to avail themselves of options others either can't or don't take have been pulled further into the delusion that their identity is tied to this present world rather than in Christ himself?

My friend, the idea that degrees, higher intelligence, jobs and/or higher value skills represents the blessings of God is an illusion. I don't mean that some don't possess keener minds or have enviable careers, but rather that you can have all that and still have nothing. And even more to the point, the illusion that you have a higher level of blessing from God because of such things is the rationale of the empty mind of man. After all, how many people strive after this illusion because it dangles itself out there as representing fulfillment and purpose? In Christ, we already have fulfillment and purpose; and that reality can play itself out whether we seem to have achieved some level of blessing according to the world or not.

What knowledge and revelations he chooses to give us before he even created the earth. It's not a matter of how well we have studied or disciplined ourselves....How does that work

Yes, real freedom is found in knowing that our true knowledge of God has been put within us in Christ. We don't have to worry. If we are to study (and study comes even in the most basic considerations of truth), we can do so from a place of rest rather than from desperation.

These are just questions Jim...no need to post them if they don't relate to the audio.

As I see it, they are directly related to the audio, for that is what stirred it up within you! big smile

Jim

If we are to study (and study comes even in the most basic considerations of truth), we can do so from a place of rest rather than from desperation.

This is a really great encouragement. I can't stress enough on the tremendous value I see in it. 

After all, how many people strive after this illusion because it dangles itself out there as representing fulfillment and purpose? In Christ, we already have fulfillment and purpose; and that reality can play itself out whether we seem to have achieved some level of blessing according to the world.

Epic!

In the comment he said:


After all, aren't we in a war with the flesh, the world and the powers of darkness?

I observe that the religious minded people have imagined this conflict according to the appearance-based mind. But considering that having been removed from the flesh we are impossible to overcome by the flesh, I think it is far more reasonable on the basis of our true assurance to delight in the experience of the flesh and its world , rather than to strive against this experience so as to attain to some imagined sense of validation. It is this very deceitful endeavor that defines the fleshly mind of the world which wars to its own detriment against our reality of clarity. People everywhere, living in the dreadful assurance of bondage, are pursuing to free themselves from whatever they imagine overcomes them. : / But we are free from an  obligation to any fleshly perception. We live in the reality of having overcome all things. Where then is strife? Where then is warring?

From what I have read of this, I am really digging it. I can confirm many of these of these things.[you of course know were I stand on allot of this stuff]

 

 

Love,

 

ADAM

Yes, real freedom is found in knowing that our true knowledge of God has been put within us in Christ. We don't have to worry. If we are to study (and study comes even in the most basic considerations of truth), we can do so from a place of rest rather than from desperation.-jIM

 

It's a Shack quote for sure!

 

Adam

I have begun burning the audio to a regular cd to listen to in the car instead the radio. I gave up talk radio after the last election, “christian” radio has it’s ups and downs so instead i listen to you guys on my 10 minute commute each way. I am using lots of cds that way but it works well and am finally getting caught up on the audio programs. :) Dave

Wow, that’s a pretty cool way to do it Dave. I know what you mean about the christian radio stuff. It has been that way for quite some years and I don’t imagine it changing anytime soon. I listen from time to time but, not in the way I once did that’s for sure. Adam

Jim, you’ve been a great blessing to me for the past 13 years!! I can’t thank you enough for this wonderful website and a very rare and welcome voice of sanity in a world of insanity that I’m immersed in daily. Thank you! But this praise happens to be for Adam. You are awesome,my friend!! You are so beautifully spoken, and insightful, and make a perfect complement to Jim in these audios. I listen to all that I can and look forward to the videos!!! It’s funny how stereotypes are formed in my mind after years at “the Shack” and it actually took a while for me to connect “Adam” with “Lovin”. Stupid me! You’re awesome and I look forward to your every word!! Thanks to both of you! Love, Vinnie
theshovel's picture

Vinnie!!! Wow, it's so good to hear from you, my dear friend. big smile I agree with your assessment of how Adam complements me in these audios ... they wouldn't have happened without him.

Jim

Yo Vinnie! I have been thinking about you lately and wondering what you've been up to?

 

 We always love hearing from you brother!

 

Adam

“….In other words, the stuff we often think we can’t understand without God’s enabling is in fact the very understanding that prompted the scribes and Pharisees as they accused Jesus of being a spawn of the devil…” Jim, I need you to clarify the above statement. Could you just say it in another way. I don’t seem to get it….or are you saying that the Pharisees were claiming that the people needed to come to them for their understanding of the scriptures….
theshovel's picture

As this quote came from a response I made farther down this page, let me put the whole thing here:

At one time I would have agreed with this suggestion because of the overwhelming difficulties people have with understanding the Bible. However, those who heard Jesus speak these words first hand were fully aware of who he was speaking to and about. They understood the context better than we do, and yet that did not give them insight into the realities of which Jesus spoke. They were moved, they were intrigued, they were filled with longing, and yet none of that kind of understanding revealed the truth of Christ to them. In other words, the stuff we often think we can't understand without God's enabling is in fact the very understanding that prompted the scribes and Pharisees as they accused Jesus of being a spawn of the devil.

The clarification of the statement you're asking about is found in the whole paragraph (especially as it relates to what I was responding to), for I was restating what I had written there. Consider what I was responding to:

I've often wondered if the Bible is not meant to be accurately interpreted unless God reveals to the reader who exactly is talking and that only happens when God supernaturally enables us to "see" or "hear" exactly who is doing the talking.

Did the scribes and Pharisees need any special revelation from God so that they would know which person was speaking or to which audience he was speaking it to? No, for that part of it was obvious to them. And the context actually bears out the same obviousness to us when we simply look for it. What they did not nor could not understand was the true nature of the one who was speaking, nor of the true spiritual realities of which he spoke. They would have picked up on the superficial significance, and ironically, the superficial is what many people consider deep.

So, let's take a good look at the statement you asked me to clarify:

"....In other words, the stuff we often think we can't understand without God's enabling is in fact the very understanding that prompted the scribes and Pharisees as they accused Jesus of being a spawn of the devil..."

The scribes and Pharisees did not need special revelation from God to understand that he was openly exposing their hypocrisy in front of all who were present — because it was obvious, not only to themselves but also to the whole crowd. And why did the Pharisees call Jesus a sinner and a child of the devil? We might cite all kinds of things, but it comes down to the simple fact that he who is the light of the world kept exposing the pretenses of those who are in darkness.

My point is that we need to cast off the religious lie that influences our perceptions of God's revelation, for his true revelation is Christ. And as his revelation continues to expand into every nook and cranny of our perceptions, the religious curtain that seems to hide truth from us will continue to rip and tear and crumble. It's not that we don't need God for everything, it's that we don't need God to show us that which is not really there. For the lie is a delusion, it is nothing.

Jim

Jim, Just a quick note here. I really appreciate the notes that are provided after each audio. I don't know if a lot of time/work goes into the notes and its no problem but they sure are helpful. I guess I am one of those slow, delayed hearers (that's slow not old :) ) and I just can't keep-up absorbing what you guys talk about. The notes fill in the blanks. :) - nergo

theshovel's picture

nergo, knowing that the notes are so helpful for you makes it all worthwhile for me to post them. Posting them doesn’t take a very long time, because I’ve already written them up for us to use as we go through the audio. I only have to format them to get them online. :)

Jim

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