28 Jul 2011

Sin-Consciousness vs. the Cross of Christ

Submitted by theshovel
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Did Christ come to bring us a greater awareness of our sins? What exactly happened to Adam and Eve back in the garden? What did they become aware of? In this week’s Audio ‘Sin Consciousness vs. The Cross Of Christ’, Jim and Adam tackle these questions and much, much more. Please join us for this wonderfully helpful audio recording.

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Men, Thank you for the reminders through this discussion that through the cross of Christ I am now dead to this world and the system of sin-consciousness. I need to hear this everyday. Tim
Tim

Tim, Thanks for the encouragement. I really like that. Adam
theshovel's picture

Reminders I know both Adam and myself are more than happy to provide! :) Thanks Tim.

Jim

Jim,Mary told me i needed to log in to have this go up so ignore my earlier post as a guest.thanks! This will seem a bit unusual but i am posting to this thread without listening to the message,I shared this with mary when she got home from work this morning and she said it would fit in this thread so here it is.Jim,feel free to move it or delete it if it doesn’t fit here. Sundays,I will sometimes read the bible and see if the Lord might “speak” to me.Not having any particular leading on what to read, I looked in the back of my bible where I write notes and passages that have ministered to me in the past and saw I had written Leviticus 16 then two lines later had written Leviticus 16. So I thought, “OK,Leviticus 16 it is”. This is the passage where the Lord is giving Aaron instructions on how he is to come into the Holy of Holies. What and how to sacrifice,what it is for and how long the sacrifice is good for(one year). And that day,the Day of Atonement was to be a day of rest for the people of Israel. What struck me is that this is exactly how the current institution church seems to look at sin and repentance. That it is an ongoing thing in our lives,that we need to regularly even daily search for any sin in us and get it to the altar .Of course this mindset results in a 1 john 1:9 mindset that we have in us continual cleansing and searching for sin in our lives instead of what it really says about a one time for all time cleansing by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. The opposite of the old testament thinking is pretty clearly laid out in Hebrews 10 1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins…. 8 After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. The kicker about the Hebrews passage is that a religious person will try to point to Hebrews 6 4-6 4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. and hebrews 10 26-27 26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. as proof that somehow, not only can we still “sin” but if we do and aren’t quick to repent, we will fall into the hands of an angry god.the very opposite of “after making sacrifice for sins one time for all time HE SAT DOWN” A mind set on finding “sin” is a mind looking away from the one time sacrifice of Christ. A mind looking at Christ sees the truth in Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation” 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven.

A good word Dave! Also a very good place to post it. Adam
theshovel's picture

Definitely an appropriate place for this post. Thanks for putting it out there. :)

Jim

Thanks Jim, I also finally was able to download some of this to my mp3 player to listen to while at work.Looking forward to hearing your and adams interaction.

He brought me to my senses by His grace and now I walk with Him - Thank you Jesus for your life and indwelling spirit. I am now joined to Him. I cannot explain what happened. I just know that I once was blind and now I see. Thank you Adam and Jim for enabling me to see more of His miraculous life in me.

nergo
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Nergo, thanks for expressing your heart of thankfulness toward what Adam and I are doing. I can tell you that it is our pleasure to do so. :)

Jim

We love you Nergo. Thanks brother. Adam

Jim, thank you so much for admitting that you hear yourself saying you’re insane. I’ve been wondering about me too!! That seems funny but when I’m questioning this it’s not funny at all!
theshovel's picture

I suspect that all of those in Christ have wondered this very thing. We may not all perceive it according to the same words or thoughts, but I think it can't help but come out in one form or another. I am glad my saying so has helped you. :)

Jim

Do you remember the TV series, “Mission impossible”? I always liked it when he said “I love it when a plan comes together”. Now I think of that every time I see father’s plan come together for me, as I can often see the steps of it. I was listening to your audio “sin consciousness versus the cross” for the third time, when I could almost hear click, click, click, as it became so clear….. When they ate of the tree, it was their perception of “everything” that changed. When you went to Acts 23:1, where Paul said I have had a good conscience to this day, Click! Click, I saw my whole mentality during my 13 years at Bible Church, and I identified with where Paul was when He was a Pharisee. I didn’t have a Damascus Road, it took God almost a year to get me out of there, for I was zealous, sincere, and confident that I was getting to know Him through Scripture. Next was when I read your article “where did you learn about Grace and the Bible”. Click, Click, on goes the plan, for I identified with all you said about the Bible, for that was my perception. John 5:39-40, I wasn’t refusing to come to him, I thought I was coming to him through the written word. I love the word “was”. Everything changed when he showed me Christ as life, and that he is only known in life. Like you, I still love the Bible, but as you said, it now shows me that it’s all Christ, and tells me about that life that is within me. When I see the “was” of my life, it only serves to give me a greater sense of freedom, and brings a gratefulness and joy that I can hardly contain. Thank you for the time and effort you put into the website. You are playing such a large part in God’s unfolding plan for me…… Adam, thank you for your current audios, it gave an added dimension to all I’ve been realizing. Julie
theshovel's picture

Yes, my dear Julie, Mission Impossible was on of my favorite shows. And that quote is so excellent! I can only tell you with these words in my response as to how excited I am to have received your email, but I hope that you hear my heart as it rejoices with you as the father brings such clarity. :) Thank you for sharing your joy with me.

Love, Jim

Dear Julie,

 

“Unfolding”, such a perfect description. Thanks so much for sharing these precious things that are unfolding in you.

 

 

Love,

Adam

Jim, As always it is enjoyable to hear your perspective on scripture and the comparison between religious belief systems and true Christianity!! As you stated the whole world is religious and religion is part of “the principles of this world” that Paul talks about in Galatians and warns us not to get back under. Satan loves religion and uses it to put us into bondage to him and of course as we look into the last days he will use it to control the world. We can see even now that the religious system is setting up people for the worship of Satan through the antichrist and it is actually happening now in all denominations to one extent or another. Many well intentioned leaders are falling into Satan’s trap of becoming more godlike through religion and outward behavior. They are substituting the truth of Christ as our Life & Righteousness to our becoming the source of our own salvation through our own efforts and as you said our own justification. It reminds me of what the Jewish Samaritans were doing in Christ’s day by setting up their own priesthood and temple separate from the one in Jerusalem. The core issue is that we just don’t want it to be about Jesus (God)we want it to be about us and what we are or do apart from Jesus. We don’t want to eat His flesh and drink His blood but that is the only way to true communion. He is Everything!!! And He is more than we need!! Praise God I can rest in Him!! Thanks again, love you in the Lord, Dan Markley
theshovel's picture

Dan, it is a pleasure hearing your responses!

I think that the anti-christ spirit is simply the the fleshly mind. As you said, religious people, manifesting the same fleshly mind, seek to justify themselves and yet accuse us of being anti-christian by perceiving righteousness in terms of deeds performed by the body. But things are the other way around :/

Jim or Adam, I was thinking of this audio about Paul and about how he lived out his religious law-days doing what he was instructed to do to free his conscious by doing sacrifices and offerings as instructed, and then relating this audio with the ‘Men of Law’ audio about the Pharisees adding their own interpretations of laws and following their own traditions distorting the law. The Pharisees were actually Abolishing the law as Jesus pointed out. My question: Do you think Paul’s ‘clear conscious’ as he states in Corinthians was simple a result of Paul confessing his hypocritical ways of intentionally interpreting the law in a wrong way as with the other Pharisees and how he supported traditions established by him and other Pharisees? My main point: I wonder if Paul ALWAYS KNEW he was a hypocrite as he was part of the other Pharisees in their interpretations of law and he was partaking in supporting traditions, and Paul was in confession … OR was Paul ACTUALLY UNAWARE (unconscious) of supporting such interpretations and traditions and it took a revelation to enabled him to see. Is there a conflict here or am I confused?!?!?!? Also, one must consider Paul’s Romans 7 in this context. What do you think?

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