You will no doubt realize that much of what we said on the audio is absent in these notes. If anyone would like to transcribe this, as well as any other audio into a more accurate script, I would welcome it!
Well Jim, in last week’s program entitled “Regarding Choice” we discussed the passage in Titus 1:15 that spoke of the believers continual purity and cleanliness being something that was being challenged by those of the circumcision in Crete. We had a tremendous response from our listeners on this topic and so we are glad today to continue on with this mini series with this week’s title; “Regarding Choice”- Growing in Grace.
I’ll give a quick recap here.
Include how Paul was often challenged by the same leaders from Jerusalem who came behind him to clean up what they would have considered heresy. Damage control.
Describe the Circumcision again with attention upon the intimidation factor, especially with how someone like Peter got snagged. Others would have succumbed to the same pressure. Those who are regarded as strong leaders, especially those with a heavy emphasis upon morality.
Adam’s Response Here: Morality is such a threatening thing when it is seen through the lens of self effort. When seen in it’s proper place, through Christ the Living One, it is good news all the way through! Those that push morality without any reliance on the Spirit, have been severed from the Head. They are not “walking by the Spirit” and therefore do not stand approved. They only serve to intimidate. But what else are we expecting from those who can not hear, can not SEE the very real deliverance that is ongoing for us in Christ? We certainly have enough trouble just walking in something WE can’t see. lol Jim?
Legalistic leaders undermine the faith of the saints by squelching any suggestion that Christ actually made us pure. This is the lie upon which all their moralizing is built.
We also gave our thoughts on some of the questions you posed regarding how it is we live and grow in this life of holiness in Christ Jesus. Do things simply vanish as we have our eyes on our Perfector and Finisher? Or must we work at becoming MORE holy, more clean?
If we listen to the moralistic mind of fleshly religion we would have to conclude that any victory over sin is an ongoing struggle of epic proportions. What the fleshly religious system has dulled our senses to is that we have already been freed from sin in the most real way. That moralistic [LAW-STRIVING FOR IT] perception keeps us from seeing it. That’s why Paul referred to it as putting it off.-
ADAM: Jim I think we get a large dose of this message in the body of Christ today. Take for instance the reality of growing in grace. Is that just some kind of description of an ongoing struggle not to sin as you mentioned just a minute ago? That’s what many hear when reading letters like Romans, James and many others of the New Testament letters. Jim you mentioned Paul referring to the “putting off” of the old and putting on the new. Why do think he used THAT sort of language? How does that fit with the reality growing in us of His grace? And let’s not forget the wonderful statement we read from our brother Mark “it just fell off”!
ADAM:Jim getting back to this concept of growing in grace. What do most think it actually is?
jim:”Growing in grace” is little more than an empty phrase that is often built upon the same false fleshly premise that our life in Christ is all about our choices between good and evil, rather than the truth that we have been made righteous and holy and good in Him. It is the same lie of the mind that can only see defilement in all things. This is why those of this perception will constantly denounce any true testimony to the life of Christ.
ADAM:You say “good and evil”. Can you give an example of this good and evil? I mean what exactly is that?
Take for instance the mention in Hebrews…”having our senses trained between good and evil.” In my estimation,we get this statement used AGAINST us by having it turned into some sort of “balance” of sin focus along with grace in Christ. By trying to balance the two, we nullify the one and thus serve bondage and not the life of God.
Yes. And once again, the very idea that we live between good and evil denies the very reality Christ made.[TALK MORE ABOUT US CHOOSING GOOD AND GOOD AND GOOD..]
*Laws of Virtue [this world’s version of fruit from the spirit of christ living in you]
*Each one speak truth to his neighbor for we are all one body”-VERY different [as in sourced from another place] than a standard of honesty or a law of virtue “i am living up to”. trickery there again…that’s following the law and the dead principals of the world.
*Consider honesty in this context [the worlds version of it] is blurting out the truth so that it loses it’s salt, its heart of love. It is the effort to be honest and not the fruit of christ. Christ is not trying hard, his burden i that work is “lite”.
Questions our listeners might be asking:
* Does our purity make our failures [aka: Sins] “okay”? wHAT ABOUT THE DAMAGE CAUSED?
The whole idea, including the accusation that the grace of Christ makes sins okay, comes from the reasoning of the fleshly mind. That’s right, all those teachings that come from the religious mind need to be exposed for what they are, otherwise they keep hammering at us with their perverted sense of purity.
[FALSE PURITY]-MUCH LIKE THE FALSE TELLING OF TRUTH MENTIONED EARLIER./
Definitely a false purity, but this is the stuff so many of us buy into, and that makes it SEEM confusing. Listen to how Paul related this to the Colossians:
If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)–in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence. Colossians 2:20-23
If you have died with Christ …. why submit to the principles, rules, regulations, decrees that belong to the world you have been delivered from?
Do not handle … do not taste … do not touch
We hear this everywhere we go in one form or another, and it comes across as being the very essence of purity, doesn’t it? But these regulations do absolutely nothing to curb self-indulgence. Nevertheless, we will still hold onto the slightest chance that it might help this time.
As far as the damage goes, we know where it comes from, and it must be met head-on … but with life.
To the pure all things are pure/clean. Could this be the very thing Paul was getting at with statements such as: “For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.” Does this mean that they are holy TO US? Or that they are holy? To the pure all things are pure.
JIM:[response to the mentioned passage]
Timing: Jim could it be that when Paul came to the point of addressing the actions of his church’s there was a certain timing[in the “fullness of time”-God’s time] that was taking place in them so that when it was spoken, it was a situation where it set the scene for “it just fell off” as opposed to “do this and be better”.