14 Jun 2000

Short version of your objections to universalism?

Submitted by theshovel
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Do you have a Cliff-Notes version of your objections to Universalism?

So, you want a Cliff Notes version, huh? I don't have one. :) But I'll make the attempt.

The reason is simple: it's not a view about who is going and who is not ... it's about humanity as God made it versus humanity as we have come to know it. We have learned to place value on man because of man himself and this is why we always hit a brick wall when we attempt to figure out the WHO and WHY or WHO NOT and WHY NOT. But the value is only found in God Himself.

The problems I've encountered in sharing my thoughts about this come from the fact that it doesn't answer the basic issues that we demand to have answered. Why not? Because those issues are bogus. We're trying to figure out who among men will get redeemed, but the old had to be done away, NOT reworked. Our problem is attached to the fact that we try to reinterpret "new" to encompass our experience of the old. Is this making any sense at all ... or is it adding to the confusion? :)


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to me it makes sense..for it testifies and agrees to the true merit which is Christ alone. If I am following you[which i think that I am], you are simply saying that though we make all sorts of doctrines through fleshly reasoning about who is going to be saved etc..that there was only merit according to the new creation[Christ] and nothing of the old.[which is Paul’s main point] Most all of the fleshly doctrines of ‘predestination’..and ‘free will’ and all the many others [I have too been exposed to] all make sense to the natural mind that still does not submit to God! OF COURSE it will sound reasonable to believe these things. For it ties into the elemental! For if you are viewing even TRUE things about the grace of God in Christ Jesus but, using formulas that make sense to the natural mind, you will conclude that His ‘choice’ HAD to be connected to something worthy in the old. Isn’t this what you are saying bro? Adam
theshovel's picture

Yes indeed, that is what I'm saying, my friend. :)


Well then, THAT is good news! For it testifies to reality and not a religion made of earthy things. You seem to be so often pointing to something miraculous in the living sense.

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Random Shovelquote: Intellectual understanding (view all shovelquotes)

The real question is, do we need a doctrine to make God understood by our intellect in order to fathom his depths? source