1 Apr 2003

Do you believe in the Trinity?

Submitted by theshovel
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Bruce, most honorable dudemeister!!

No indeed I don't believe in the Trinity ... I haven't for a while.

At one time I would have jumped on this suggestion of heresy like a duck on a June-bug simply because it has been accepted for so long as one of the fundamentals of the faith. After all, who else would dispute the three-in-one teaching except cults like...JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES?????!!!!! Aaaaaiiiiieeeee!!!! Gasp, cough, choke!!!

But over the years, for me, Doctrine has become less and less important in view of REALITY, in other words, LIFE, and I found myself less concerned with defending doctrine. Somewhere along the line it just kind of faded in view of Christ. Of course, this seemed rather odd to me at times when I was either questioned about it or when the doctrine came up in my own considerations. I mean, for a long while I gave lip-service to the teaching because everybody knows that it presents Christ in the best possible light...right? NOT!!

Yeah, I think the doctrine known as the Trinity is nothing but the appearance of godliness. I think it came about as a control mechanism used by the clergy to help establish itself in a more spiritual level above the laity. I also think it is a DENIAL of the real Jesus Christ who is the very definition of God in man. Though the doctrine seems to elevate God to His rightful position as God it only serves to destroy everything He brought about in Christ.

The doctrine demands that God is God and man is man and that we should never confuse the two. Why would I need a doctrine to convince me of this? Yeah, yeah, many men may have tried to set themselves up as God, but the truth has always been so obvious because so much effort and promo is required to create such an illusion. Human gods have suffered the same sense of inadequacy that we all struggle with they have merely taken the opportunity afforded them to create a sense of superiority by fooling others into validating it by bowing down in subservience. So, what would this have to do with those who have the Spirit of the living God?

Now, why would the religious mind create and stand behind a doctrine that elevates Christ? I mean, could such a godly teaching possibly be in error? After all, it demands that the name of Jesus is above every name, doesn't it? So it seems. But why then does the teaching leave its adherents with an underlying sense of SEPARATION between themselves and Christ if his purpose was to create union?

I began to get suspicious after a while from the intense insistence that Jesus is God a most UN-Biblical statement, you know!! I mean, how could so many millions of people have the correct doctrinal understanding of God's Son and yet be so stinkin' unaware of the freedom he brought? Sounds like the ploy of the evil one, doesn't it? This is a doctrine that any respectable modern-day Pharisee could agree with!!

But the truth of Jesus is not that Jesus became God, but that God became FLESH!! The doctrine of the Trinity has successfully given lip-service to the very details of the death, burial, and resurrection but then portrays the one by whom God has established union with Himself as being separate from those who have been made one. The Trinity doctrine presents the miracle as something that never really happened by distracting our attention from the UNION of God and man in Christ.

Hahaha see what you did by asking me about this?!!



Please, can you clarify more on this matter. I really am unable to grasp it. Are you saying that God became man and, therefore, man is now connected to God directly, in the sense that he loses himself in God? I really do not understand what you are saying at all. Neither do I understand the doctrine of the Trinity, either.
theshovel's picture

I don't mean to sound too ethereal by saying this, but I think most of our difficulty with understanding God comes from our attempts to understand him according to the reasoning by which we understand the workings of the world. I know, that's a mouthful. The truth is, we can only understand God through the mind of God that has been given to us in Christ. There have just been too many attempts at making God understandable, in the common sense kind of way, that is. It's just not going to work, and all it does is to conform God to man's reasoning.

I'm not sure what you mean by "he loses himself in God", but in Christ, we discover that our real life is Christ. Yes, I know that's very ethereal to any concept of man's reasoning. :)


It would seem that you [Jim] are more against the DOCTRINE of the Trinity than any reality of that connection between the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
theshovel's picture

Oh for sure, Adam! There is at least one article where I say exactly that. It's the formulation of God that gets under my skin. :)


I personally have no issue with the Trinity doctrine but, then again I have never engaged in any prolonged, deep study of the doctrine to be thrown off by it. The doctrine itself I am sure has many forms and it is seemingly used as ‘the one true test’ of whether someone is really a believer or not. This test seems to be a universally accepted tool on the part of the institutional church at large. No Trinity, no admittance. For me, I surely do believe the Father and the Son and H.S. are one. But like anything else, I have never willingly viewed anything in the Christan faith as something outward and technical in nature but, truly real.

I’ll chime in here again:)I love these few quotes from your writings on this topic: It’s like the “doctrine” confuses (there is probably a better word) the reality of Christ in us and us in Him-our union-by trying to make it all into an understandable teaching. Debi “How is it that if the doctrine of the Trinity is such a “foundational” teaching of Christianity that the majority of those who hold to the doctrine do not also hold to the reality of our union with God in Christ?” “As being born in the flesh he became the perfect union between the creation brought into being through him and God himself. We CANNOT understand this union through any type of study or logic, but ONLY from being joined together with God through Christ.” “Notice, it wasn’t until the word became flesh that he was called “Jesus”. It was the EXPRESSION OF GOD that got joined together with the creation that gave God His Son. Not Jesus Christ, a creation of God, but the joining of the CREATOR with the CREATION�.. The doctrine of the Trinity uses many of these same verses, but will never allow for what I just told you. I have had so many run-ins with those who hold to the Trinity teaching that just shake their heads at me and call me “heretic”. :)

“… it is a DENIAL of the real Jesus Christ who is the very definition of God in man. Though the doctrine seems to elevate God to His rightful position as God it only serves to destroy everything He brought about in Christ.”


JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF GOD IN MAN  !!!   :)   it should be printed on t'shirts, made into bumper stickers, stamped on our foreheads and make us sleep soundly and peacefully!  :)

” … His purpose was to create union …”  LOVELY!  :)

“… the truth of Jesus is not that Jesus became God, but that God became FLESH!!”  whoa!  that is so amazing, isn't it!!?!!  :)


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