20 May 2007

Do you believe that we cannot sin?

Submitted by theshovel
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Jim, I read this random quote tonight, "It wasn't until after I came to this forum that I realized the truth of this verse. I am born of God and I cannot sin, because in Him, there is no sin! It was like a thunderbolt went off when I got that revelation! The issue of sin, however you define it, has been done away with -- he nailed it to the cross." Do you believe that we "cannot sin", that is disobey Christ? Tim

How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Romans 6:2-7

And regarding the sin we experience in our body Paul put forth this amazing revelation:

So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. Romans 7:17

It is in knowing who you really are in Christ that this makes any sense at all. I'm surprised you haven't noticed this theme woven through much of what I've written. :)

Jim

Jim, But if, for example, lie or steal would I not be sinning? Tim

Oh yeah, I left off that part of Paul's words.

So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ... unless of course if it is lying or stealing.

Did you think that only Paul's problem with "all manner of coveting" was including here? :)

Jim

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Hi Jim! Long-time-no-comment! Anyway, your use of Rom. 7:17 works for you if you view Paul talking in vv. 14ff as a Christian. I consider this passage as Paul referring to his “B.C.” days as a Jewish religious leader… hence, his interaction with the Law. What tipped me off to this is his his use of the transitional word “for” in v. 14, implying a clear connection between the rhetorical question of v. 13 and a more detailed explanation of his short answer in vv. 14-25. Check out this: “The question Paul is answering [in vv. 14-25] then is not, ‘Does a Christian still struggle with sin?’ but rather ‘Has then what is good become death to me?’” You might find the following article where I dug up this quote enlightening: http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/books/counterfeit-cro... Now, getting back to your answer, how do you deal with Paul’s rhetorical questions and answers from chap. 6: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?” Certainly Not!” and “Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly Not!” Apparently Paul DOES attribute the ability to sin to the Christian by using “shall we continue in sin” and “shall we sin.” Granted, his purpose isn’t to point out WHY the Christian may sin, but a Christian can sin. Therefore, I find your blaming shifting problematic [7:17], especially if your entire argument is based on a verse in a passage that is probably not even talking about a regenerate person.
theshovel's picture

Hello Jim B,

It has been a long time since I've heard from you. I was wondering if I'd see you again. I think I remember you having a problem with my comments on this from way back. :)

I'm a little surprised that you chose to comment on one of my briefest Q&As dealing with Romans 7. LOL! I actually have quite a bit written, and even some discussed on one of the audios. I don't have a lot of time at the moment, but let me direct you to a few other articles that should shed a bit more light on where I'm coming from. I just moved a few articles around so that they would be included in the Romans 7 category, and you can find them here:

http://theshovel.net/bible-nt/romans/romans-7

Here's an audio where I discuss quite a bit regarding Romans 7 (it starts about halfway through)
http://theshovel.net/shovelaudio/program/knowledge-of-sin

You can also find a few articles on Romans 6 from that same address. Most of my comments on Romans 6 and 7 are probably found in the midst of Q&As that are related and are therefore not included in the NT Bible section.

There is a real consideration lacking in most commentaries I've heard regarding the rhetorical questions found throughout Romans, especially in chapter 6: Whose questions are they, really?

Jim

Jim, But if, for example, lie or steal would I not be sinning?

But if we ourselves cannot sin anymore, why should we still tolerate the mind that perceives the possibility of sin? That is, the same mind that asks these kind of questions as it seeks to rationalize the reality of grace in order that it may turn it into an intellectual concept for the justification of its evil. But there is no justification in the intellectual mind of the flesh, only the illusion of such. 

How is it possible to perceive in the same world of flesh some things as being good and some as being evil? Only through the mind of hypocrisy it is possible. Because every flesh is under the condemnation of finality. So that no one can be justified by doing this and that bodily action or in-action; but only by the reality of a new creation that cannot die is someone justified by nature. Because death is the condemnation of the flesh, but the eternal life of God is the justification from death and therefore from the flesh. Because the life of God cannot die even though it lives in the flesh and tastes from death, but the flesh itself and all of its works cannot overcome death because they are deadness itself.

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