Shoveletter http://theshovel.net This is an XML content feed of; Shoveletter : Last 10 Posts Fri, 09 May 2008 09:55:06 +0000 Fri, 20 Jul 2007 16:50:40 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 8.06 30 theshovel.net/RSS_topic_feed.asp Shovel Writings http://theshovel.net/http://theshovel.net/images/main.gif http://theshovel.net The Spoonful : What about the lust of the eyes? http://theshovel.net/dig.asp?TID=81&PID=229#229 Author: theshovel
Subject: What about the lust of the eyes?
Posted: Jul-20-07 at 4:50pm

Hello Leo,

Thanks for writing. Of course, having written quite extensively withthis brother I suspect he would have said something similar for much ofhis Christian life. He has been only recently coming to terms with manyreligious disillusions he's held through 30 years of ministry life, andhe now wants to get behind the failure of many of his past efforts atavoiding stuff like this.

Jim

Hi Jim,
Obviously you don't agree with my thoughts. Why?
Sincerely Leo


Hello Leo,

Your comments seemed to suggest that this brothershouldn't try to get to the bottom of why he responds as he does. Youmay not have meant it that way, but that's how it came across to me andso I wrote what I did for your consideration. :)

Jim

Dear Jim, If I could write as well as you do maybe Icould explain my statement better. The Lord not me said to rejoice inour weakness,not me. He didn't say dwell on it. I went to Doc's foryears for them to figure out why I felt bad after the Vietnam era. WhenI came to Christ I realized I was what I was by what I was thinking ofcoarse they drugged me with Valium for years. Getting to the bottom isBS. I.E: Drunks go to AA. To sober up, right?
The very thing causing the problem is the very sin they talk aboutthe whole time they are in AA., what nonsense. Jim it's not unusual tolust. I would think the brother is trying to justify where his thoughtsare?could he be a cry baby?
Respectfully in Christ Leo

Leo,

I'm a big advocate of communication. I write in such a wayas to stimulate more of it, not to cut it off and definitely not tosuggest that my way is somehow superior. The fact is that I'm hit moreoften with comments as to confusion over what I wrote than to havingexplained it well. I'm not concerned with hearing a "better" statementfrom you (i.e. one more like mine) but with connecting through our ownways. And now I think we're really communicating! :)

I, too, seethe whole AA program as a self-perpetuating cycle. It's funny youbrought it up now as I just commented on it to someone else this week,and then on the Shovel Shack discussion forum another brother printedout the 12 steps asking if others noticed a similarity between thesteps and the "Christian Life" we learned apart from the miraculousnessof Christ. Years ago, we took my very young daughter to a long-termdrug-rehab program where the parents were heavily involved (it used amodified version of the 12-step program, slimming it down to 7 steps).

Nodoubt they made some very good points, but it was basically the samekind of legal system created by the religious Christian community.There were in fact numerous religious Christian families involved,including a few "pastors". Some of the more "dedicated"Christians/Christian leaders jumped ship and pulled their child out ofthe program because they couldn't handle the uncovering of their ownfailed systems of belief; others simply transferred their dedicationfrom the Christianity that couldn't help to the new program thatactually seemed to help them break free ... at least for a time.

Iknow what you mean by the BS of getting to the bottom, and I fullyagree. There was always that hope held out that someone would finallyhit rock bottom. The only problem was that each new "rock bottom"proved to not be the real bottom. This is just as true in the world ofAA as it is in the religious mind of Christianity. I'm not suggestingthat at all. Actually, what this brother needs to get to the bottom ofis the same thing you describe: the realization that all his religiousbeliefs ARE the problem.

I know that this guy is just likeanyone else regarding lust. For him, after 30 years of religiousindoctrination as a missionary, to be told that he needs to rejoice inhis weakness and move on is something he understands according to hisprogram. He heard it for years. You may not hear those words in thatway, but I can tell you based upon my own past indoctrination (as wellas some of my other communication with him) that he's heard those wordsfor years and years and all they would suggest to him is to try to "do"what he unsuccessfully tried to do before.

While your coming toChrist came in the midst of the BS of fleshly attempts at handling yourproblems, others come to Christ in the midst of a religious "Christian"climate that blurs the obvious distinctions you would have seen in aheartbeat. What happens in such an environment causes the words offreedom to be heard according to the religious mind of the flesh.

No,it's not unusual to lust, but now that he is considering for the firsttime in his life that the old has died in Christ he was expecting somekind of "miraculous" change because of it. His learned religiousmentality assumed this problem would have to go away if what he is nowseeing is really true. The conflict and letdown he is experiencing isall part of his realization of how deeply the religious mind hasdemanded it to be. For him, getting to the bottom of this is to realizethat the religious mind IS the fleshly mind, especially as it relatesto how to handle his "lusting problem".

Jim :)


Thanks Jim.
Thank You Christ for indwelling Jim.
Later Friend.

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